Hero Tower Defense Thursday: Day 29 - The Class System
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Welcome to Hero Tower Defense Thursday!
Go here to read Day 28 of Hero Tower Defense Thursday.
Unfortunately there's no update this week because we are still working out some things that would have made for a less than stellar update. Things like game crashing bugs and whatnot so we'll be holding off till next week. You can expect this on occasion with HTD because while we shoot for weekly updates sometimes we have to skip a week here or there in order to spend a little more time to fix stuff.
So then, let's talk about classes. If you recall in an earlier post way back when I had mentioned the classes but I don't recall going into significant detail about them. So allow my to explain what out current plan is... it's interesting.
First we want to have it be more along the lines of an open-class system. That basically means everyone starts nearly the same way but customizes their character into a specific class as they level up. In a closed-class system you pretty much just pick a class and that's that. You might be able to branch off into different skill trees within the class but that's about it.
What we are hoping to do is take the open-class system but having it guide you into a class that is determined by what skills you want. So instead of assigning attribute points to increase hero stats you will just be picking skills which will then determine which what attributes are increased. It's important to keep in mind that there is another set of skills called Class Skills (CS)which we haven't implemented yet. These are more character based and mostly passive skills that help shape your hero into the class you want.
So let's go through a few steps on how this would work. Every so often you would get a Elemental Skill Point (ESP), you'll probably only get 10 of these (used to be 15 but lowered it for a few reasons). You would assign this ESP to a skill like Physical Tier 1 Fire, Flame Strike. So now you have this ESP in a Physical Skill (PS). Every level you will be getting Class Skill Points (CSP), there are two types of these, Physical and Magical. Which one you get is determined by what ratio of Physical:Magical ESPs you have signed. So for example if you have 1:0, each level would be giving you all Physical CSPs. If you are 1:4 you'll be getting some Physical CPS but mostly Magical CSPs. The amount of CSPs you get increases by one per level each time you get a new ESP until you are maxed and then every so often after that. So eventually you're getting 10+ per level.
The reason for the Physical and Magical CSPs is to keep you on track with your Elemental Skill (ES) choices. It's never really good to assign all your ESPs to Physical ESs and then increase your Intelligence stat really high. It's a bit of a conflict since the damage of those ESs will be based on other stats like Strength. With this set up you pick the ESs you like and you are given CSPs to help make it better. If you have a mix of Physical and Magical ESs then you get a mix of CSPs, etc.
Class Skills themselves will increase various stats to different amounts depending on their purpose and the amount of points invested in them. For example there might be a skill that allows you two wield Magical weapons more effectively. This would be a passive Magical skill that increase your Intelligence and perhaps Agility stats as put more points into it. You might also find an active skill such as Taunt in the Physical section which would increase your Strength and Stamina per point.
So the reason for all of this is so that you can pick the skills you like and end up with character stats and CSs that support them. Doing all of this ultimately defines your heroes into certain classes. For this reason, it's more like a dynamic class system that adjusts as your character takes shape. You might start out as a Warrior and end up a Paladin with healing. You could begin as a Healer and end up as an Battle Mage that can also tank. Perhaps you'd start as a Fighter and become a Monk. You can still go the pure route as well and be a full on Archer, however their title will also change as they develop because there will be different "classes" of Archer. For example some higher classes might be Marksman, Bowman, Ranger, Sharpshooter, etc.
The ESs you choose may also affect your class, for example Shadow Knight (Shadow ESs), Holy Paladin (Light ESs), Arch Mage (Wide mix of ESs), etc. For this reason there will be a whole lot of classes that you could end up as. Discovering them will be part of the fun, and yes there will be ways to respec your heroes so you won't have to keep making new characters to experiment.
Now, what I'd like to ask you guys is, what classes would you like to see? Give me a Class Name and what sort of Elemental and Class skills they might have. Be general with the skills, I don't need specifics but more of just an overall idea. Here's an example: Death Dealer - Fire and Shadow Skills with dual wielding melee skills and fast attack speed skills. Now let's here yours in the comments!
I'd also just like to mention once again that there is a HTD wiki page that has been created by our fans! It can be found here: http://herotowerdefense.wikia.com/wiki/Hero_tower_defense_Wiki
Big thanks to everyone who has been contributing! We've also added the wiki to the Fan Links/FAQ tab.
In the Works:
Design
Graphics
Programming
Also check out Kevin's blog, KXN @ HTD for HTD art-related concepts, WIPs, polls, and more!
I'm looking forward to hearing what classes you guys come up with along with any other feedback and comments you guys have! Thanks again for the support!
-Dan
Welcome to Hero Tower Defense Thursday!
HTD Logo
So then, let's talk about classes. If you recall in an earlier post way back when I had mentioned the classes but I don't recall going into significant detail about them. So allow my to explain what out current plan is... it's interesting.
First we want to have it be more along the lines of an open-class system. That basically means everyone starts nearly the same way but customizes their character into a specific class as they level up. In a closed-class system you pretty much just pick a class and that's that. You might be able to branch off into different skill trees within the class but that's about it.
What we are hoping to do is take the open-class system but having it guide you into a class that is determined by what skills you want. So instead of assigning attribute points to increase hero stats you will just be picking skills which will then determine which what attributes are increased. It's important to keep in mind that there is another set of skills called Class Skills (CS)which we haven't implemented yet. These are more character based and mostly passive skills that help shape your hero into the class you want.
So let's go through a few steps on how this would work. Every so often you would get a Elemental Skill Point (ESP), you'll probably only get 10 of these (used to be 15 but lowered it for a few reasons). You would assign this ESP to a skill like Physical Tier 1 Fire, Flame Strike. So now you have this ESP in a Physical Skill (PS). Every level you will be getting Class Skill Points (CSP), there are two types of these, Physical and Magical. Which one you get is determined by what ratio of Physical:Magical ESPs you have signed. So for example if you have 1:0, each level would be giving you all Physical CSPs. If you are 1:4 you'll be getting some Physical CPS but mostly Magical CSPs. The amount of CSPs you get increases by one per level each time you get a new ESP until you are maxed and then every so often after that. So eventually you're getting 10+ per level.
The reason for the Physical and Magical CSPs is to keep you on track with your Elemental Skill (ES) choices. It's never really good to assign all your ESPs to Physical ESs and then increase your Intelligence stat really high. It's a bit of a conflict since the damage of those ESs will be based on other stats like Strength. With this set up you pick the ESs you like and you are given CSPs to help make it better. If you have a mix of Physical and Magical ESs then you get a mix of CSPs, etc.
Class Skills themselves will increase various stats to different amounts depending on their purpose and the amount of points invested in them. For example there might be a skill that allows you two wield Magical weapons more effectively. This would be a passive Magical skill that increase your Intelligence and perhaps Agility stats as put more points into it. You might also find an active skill such as Taunt in the Physical section which would increase your Strength and Stamina per point.
So the reason for all of this is so that you can pick the skills you like and end up with character stats and CSs that support them. Doing all of this ultimately defines your heroes into certain classes. For this reason, it's more like a dynamic class system that adjusts as your character takes shape. You might start out as a Warrior and end up a Paladin with healing. You could begin as a Healer and end up as an Battle Mage that can also tank. Perhaps you'd start as a Fighter and become a Monk. You can still go the pure route as well and be a full on Archer, however their title will also change as they develop because there will be different "classes" of Archer. For example some higher classes might be Marksman, Bowman, Ranger, Sharpshooter, etc.
The ESs you choose may also affect your class, for example Shadow Knight (Shadow ESs), Holy Paladin (Light ESs), Arch Mage (Wide mix of ESs), etc. For this reason there will be a whole lot of classes that you could end up as. Discovering them will be part of the fun, and yes there will be ways to respec your heroes so you won't have to keep making new characters to experiment.
Now, what I'd like to ask you guys is, what classes would you like to see? Give me a Class Name and what sort of Elemental and Class skills they might have. Be general with the skills, I don't need specifics but more of just an overall idea. Here's an example: Death Dealer - Fire and Shadow Skills with dual wielding melee skills and fast attack speed skills. Now let's here yours in the comments!
I'd also just like to mention once again that there is a HTD wiki page that has been created by our fans! It can be found here: http://herotowerdefense.wikia.com/wiki/Hero_tower_defense_Wiki
Big thanks to everyone who has been contributing! We've also added the wiki to the Fan Links/FAQ tab.
In the Works:
- Mid-Battle Skill Screen (100%) - Different from the current pre-battle screen
- Story: Outline (100%)
- Hero Stats and Points (50%)
- User/Profiles Screen Graphics (50%)
- Inventory Screen Graphics (0%)
- Targeting Heroes With Skills (100%)
- Bug Fixes (100%)
Also check out Kevin's blog, KXN @ HTD for HTD art-related concepts, WIPs, polls, and more!
I'm looking forward to hearing what classes you guys come up with along with any other feedback and comments you guys have! Thanks again for the support!
-Dan
First Class!
ReplyDelete2nd??? anyway... these update seems to be a great one!!! are u going to release in the next update HTD into other webs such as minijuegos or are u going to keep your pre-alpha a bit more in order to have a better game (e.g al least a move from water, light and nature, and also a class physical and magical move; some skill and stat custom points, some gear ready to be equiped and of course more story levels)???
DeletePre-Alpha will be going for awhile, there's still plenty to be implemented and we would rather take our time making it good instead of rushing things out. All those things you mentioned will be getting implemented as we continue to make progress with HTD's development.
Deletei realize something, will you still add water element?
DeleteSecond! Deux! Dos!
ReplyDelete-Haxing Cat
Archer- nature, water, and fire who wields with bows and arrows and fast but far(ranged) only attacks that do little damage, but can be upgrading to do poisen, flame arrows, etc.
ReplyDeleteKnight-fire and shadow with a sword and/or horse. close ranged medium powerful attacks.
Dwarf-nature and fire with a hammer/axe close ranged POWERFUL attacks.
Goblen-fire and shadow with a knife(?) and low damage attacks(?)
Elf- fire shadow nature and water with a sword arrow or axe close or ranged and low medium and high attacks
hay wen is the 5 person come into the game?
ReplyDeleteWe'll add them soon. :)
Deleteclasses:
ReplyDeleteAssasin- fire and water with a knife and sword with quick, but medium damage
Wrecker/Ruiner-shadow fire water nature with a very large ax that does close ranged but very powerful attacks
Peasants- gain you money for every enemy you kill. they can't fight, they can't level up, they can die very easily(like 1 or 2 hits), but they do gain you money
Blacksmiths-every enemy they defeat they get tools to make weapons for him and your team. can be leveled up, can fight(damage depends on what tool/weapon hes using), and uses every element
Monk- nature water and fire wields a staff quick attacks that does low medium damage but can be far or close
I'm not sure about blacksmith & peasant classes. Have u realized we can't use more than 5 hero-towers in the same battle that, of course, can´t be repaced by others in your inventory when faint???
Deletethese 2 classes (and specially peasant) suppose a party member that does no damage and can be easily defeated. If we're restricted to use a certain number of towers that can't be replaced by other one when they're broken (or defeated in these case) the difference between having or not one more hero (and sometimes a certain hero/skills) can be the difference bewteen pass or not these level; since we've a gold-farming attack in PTD (pay day) we could have a gold-farming skill (it could be a light skill called "shiny gold" that increase the incoming gold from enemies or a shadow skill called "pick pocket" that, used once per enemy, gives u adicional gold depending on the enemy level, type, size) or also could be an object that has a magical effect that increase the incoming gold per defeated enemy in a certain %.
About blacksmith... if these class is implemented, we could have a way to get good gear easily, and these isn't fun :(; instead of that we could have an NPC called blacksmith that gives us basic gear (worse gear than the one we can get in the level that we're going to do, but neccesary one to accomplish these level)
And about your other classes (Monk, Wrecker, Assasin; and if you're anon Mar 8 10:49PM, also Elf, archer, knight, dwarf and goblin) are good one, close-combat magical classes such as Ruiner (a cursed fighter ;) ), and knight (i'd rather include a "ligth" version of these phisical striker, like paladin or hierophant, with light and fire skills), and phisical one like dwarf (looks like a babarian) ranged-combat classes like archer, and Monk, a versatile class that can be use both as a ranged-combat magical or as a phisical striker with good damage.
I would've like to see some support classes like healers or blessers, that restore the party health and reinforce them with magic increasing their attributes or simply making protection fields againt a certain type of enemy magical/phisical damage or status change skill (a good example of these class could be a Priest; a light/shadow hero that can inflict heavy magical-ranged damage with shadow skills, also self-healing based on the damage done, or protect the whole party with light skills; obviously these hero can't use light and shadow skills at the same time, so he can only play a certain role, healer or ranged-magical striker, at same time)
the assassin class shouldn't be fir and water, they dont go together as well. why not shadow and well shadow really, but he has higher levels of agility.
Deletei like the sound of an assassin class, but fire and water don't match assassin quite right. What about he is pure shadow, uses a diversity of physical attacks(ranged and melee) and DoT attacks, and has a high amount of agility.
DeleteYea. But how about Priests as healers and blessers(blessers boost up ur attack, speed, etc.) and mages as healers and attackers?
DeleteI like a lot of your classes except the peasant(make the peasant a thief that can level up and not die as easily as a peasant) and the blacksmith would be an NPC in the main menu that at would be upgraded with points to give you better swords, armor, etc.
By the way, what does NPC stand for?
You have a creative mind!
Delete:)
In the strategy game Fire Emblem, you can unlock a character called Merlinus by doing a certain sidequest. He doesn't count against your unit cap for that level because he can't fight - all he's there for is so you can access your party inventory and send any extra items to him rather than being limited to the five-item [including weapons] individual inventory each unit has. If he doesn't get wiped out by enemies before the level ends, he levels up, gaining more HP, and when he reaches level 20, he changes class, which enables him to actually move around during the battle (so he's no longer a sitting duck for enemies).
DeleteMaybe you could have the peasant class be like that?
I'd suggest Sam and Dan looking up the Etrian Odyssey series of Nintendo DS RPGs, since it has a lot of creative ideas - in particular, you only get money by selling loot the enemies drop, but you also unlock items by selling a certain amount of the right kind of loot to the shopkeeper. Maybe that's a way to work in the "Blacksmith" suggestion? They also have a class like you're suggesting called the "Farmer" class, thought it actually can fight [although it's much weaker than any of the other classes]; its skills focus on upping rare item drop rates, harvesting items from certain points on the map, increasing EXP earned after a battle, and that sort of thing.
[Also, to anyone reading this comment, it's an INCREDIBLE series, though unusually challenging. You should check it out for yourselves. Beginners might want to start with EO III: The Drowned City, because it's got an easier learning curve than the other two.]
Nice suggestions, by the way!
(To the 4:25 PM anon, NPC=Non-Player Character.)
-Water's Great Guardian [from the Wiki]
Non
DeletePlayer
Character
Oh, ok.
DeleteSome nice and unique ideas here and good discussion about them. As a note there won't really be any classes that can't fight really because you HAVE to spend ESPs on ESs in order to gain the CSPs. So you could potentially max a Pick Pocket CS but it doesn't mean that would be all you could do. All classes will have a variety of ESs and CSs regardless really, it's just a matter of how you distribute all the points.
DeleteHow many classes will there be?
ReplyDeleteA lot, remember it's a dynamic class system so your class changes depending on how you build your character.
Deletei have to admit this is a little confusing but after a while i understood it keep up the good work.
ReplyDeletep.s. second (non administrator first)
Yeah it's a little complex but it'll make more sense when you see it in-game.
DeleteSecond comment!!
ReplyDeleteI think there should be a Shodow Mage with (obviosly) shadow skills!
Go HTD
-mrev62000
a shadow mage called... warlock, perhaps? ;)
DeleteHmmm..?
DeleteHere's my Class's resume
ReplyDeleteName: Earth Golem
Attack Speed:Very Slow
Attack: High
Defense: High
Range: Minimal
Starts off as: Orc
Special Traits: Can summon deadly earth quakes that does severe damage to everyone on the field (including teammates)
Appearance: Looks sort of like the Thing from the fantastic 4 but much less bulky.Still pretty bulky, just not THAT bulky.
P.S This are Pokamanz. I didn't like the "other" name.
P.P.S Will leveling up or story levels be added first?
P.P.P.S Would It be P.P.S or P.S.S
Respond so i know how you like my idea :D -thx, pokamanz
Too many P.S's!
DeleteI like the idea; but idk.....
Yes, I like the idea ;) To answer your question, leveling will probably be added first before story levels.
DeleteWarlord - Nature or Fire/ Wide Weapon Selection no long range spells
ReplyDeleteHow about these two, do you think they would be okay?
ReplyDeleteRogue: Best with Shadow, fast but weak attacks, has an enhanced ability to dodge attacks
Tamer: Best with Nature, has a small chance to make an enemy 'friendly', causing it to turn around and attack others until it dies.
Cool, especially the Tamer class skill of having enemies attack each other. That could be quite useful!
DeleteDruid: a more defensive nature mage. Maybe being able to wear light armor later? Can summon animal companions to act as temporary towers
ReplyDeleteDuelist: A duel sword wielding warrior who specializes in counters/ damage reversals and blocking/ parrying attacks
Dragon Knight: a flame wielding warrior with possible half dragon transformations
Vampire Slayer: A ranger/bowman specializing in hunting all types of undead gaining a bonus to hit if attacking him. Also great resistance to shadow damage
What about a:
ReplyDeleteWarrior - Shadow, nature, and fire. All completely physical attacks that range from high medium to high. He carries a mace(spiked?). Not easy to kill!
Hope you like it!
2 suggestions.
ReplyDelete1. While where in pre-alpha,might as well take advantage in the current "survival mode" we have now to make it more difficult. How about the longer we play, the more red whelps spawn?
2. 3 Game options. On easy, you only fight treasure whelps. On normal, you can fight both wit the way i have above.On Hardcore, You there is 80 percent chance of red whelps, and 20 percent chance of treasure whelps.People on Easy mode will get -500 points. People on Normal will get nothing, But people on hardcore mode will get +1000 points when they finish.
3. A "points" system. This way this conversation could actually happen
---------------
Me: Hey Dude, I just got like 10,000 points on HTD
Person:O Rly?
---------------
And may i suggest a leader board? A treasure whelp could equal 100 points and a red whelp could equal 200.
That looks like 3 suggestions to me ;) That's ok, the more the better!
DeleteThe current survival mode is really only for testing right now. If you guys like it though we can work it into the actual game I'm sure and use some sort of point system with a leader board like you mentioned.
The different difficulties probably won't fit into a game like HTD because it 'll act more like an MMORPG. In other words there are no difficulties, instead you go find harder monsters that are higher level through the story, side-quests, etc.
Okay, I see where your going here.
DeleteSome Class Ideas
ReplyDelete* Ninja: Physical Shadow and Magical Fire, physical attacks would increase evasiveness and minor fire magic mostly used to create smoke effects.
* Druid: Nature, Water, and Light Magic, combines these 3 elements to create powerful plant magics, with entangling roots and healing properties.
* Steam-Punk: Nature Physical, Water and Fire Magic, Strong physical nature is used to make metal to house is powerful (Water mgc + Fire mgc =) Steam magic
* Vine Master: Physical Nature, The stronger her physical nature powers get the greater the range of her vine attacks become.
* Prism Magus: Water and Light Magic: Channeling light through water to break it down into different magic properties, Does random magical damage (except shadow) to opponents in a cone.
Please add steam.punk! :D
Deletewhen are you going to release the water element?
ReplyDeleteNext update; I guess...
DeleteYeah, the next release will have the Native, T1 Physical, and T1 Magical Water Skills.
Deletespell sword, i play dnd and ive found spell swords quite interesting. they create swords from various elements such as fire shadow and nature, or they enchant physical weapons like add fire damage to a steel sword. barbarians with berseker cant be forgotten also. orcs are a classic race with high strength but little intelegence. another thing to add should be werewolves, complete a quest and you can have a member go into battle as a werewolf just saying.
ReplyDeleteGood suggestions, I can certainly see almost all of these ideas making it in at some point or another. :)
DeleteWill you make "useless" class/race combo's, like orc-mages, who can't do much, because of his low intelligent(as anonymous said)?
DeleteSome class ideas:
ReplyDelete* Attack Mage - A mage that is also is also good at using phisical attacks.
* Defense Mage - A mage that has a very high defense.
* ShadowLight Mage - A mage that specialises in Light and Shadow magic.
What classes have you chosen so far; or are you still choosing them as we speak?
ReplyDeleteWill classes + leveling up be in the next 2-3 updates?
Haven't settled on any yet, it's all up in the air right now which is why I wanted to ask you guys for some suggestions and get your feedback.
DeleteHTD updates can vary significantly in the amount of content in them since there's a lot more involved since everything is original content. So I don't want to give an ETA but they will be coming up soon since we are starting to work on those sections of the game.
class idea
ReplyDeleteTamer (allows you to capture some creatures)
monsters (take a specific slot and have a closed class system)
these class would be a sort of.. hunter, perhaps??
Deletethink on that; these class could be type of archer; perhaps an ultimate level archer with focused on ranged combat, but also good in closed combat (most of the attribute points would be agility, but it could have some strength points), he also would have most of skill points as phisical ESP's, and a bit of magical ESP's (it could be a ratio between 9:1 and 8:2)
that's the idea
Class: Hunter
Elements: Fire and Nature
Type: ranged combat with fast shots (low DD+DoT) and some large shots (high DD), supported by a closed-combat beast, he'll feign death while in danger, his shots have extra range respect other classes
Skills: -ranged shots: nature for poisoning, fire for damage; can't be used on close combat
-traps: nature for decreasing speed, fire for extra damage; useless against flyers
-tame beast: tame a beast for closed-combat; each beast has an unique skill
-feign death: allows hunter not to be attacked while he hasn't beast, but he can't attack
That's basically a Hunter straight out of WoW lol
DeleteThere will be a class similar to this however things like feign death probably won't have much use in the TD setting. Taming beasts may vary greatly. You might even be able to have a several at once.
Thanks for all the suggestions guys! There are lots of good ideas in here that I can see being used in the game. We'll certainly be using at least some aspects of the majority of these so thanks again for helping us out!
ReplyDeletedear sam
ReplyDeleteim trying not to be rude ar anything but at Twitter you wrote theres no internet but if there is no internet, how are you able to go on twitter
He can only use his phone at some places with wifi. He doesn't have anything at his new place yet.
Deletepaladin, starts of as warrior,knight cavalier, paladin. magic class mixed physical class mixed magic less than physical size, 2 spots guy on horse speed very high attack and def too
ReplyDelete