Tuesday, September 13, 2011

Hero Tower Defense Tuesday: Day 5!

Want to get the legendary dogs? Shiny Mew? or any other shiny pokemon in the game? Adopt them today using SnD coins! Purchase some SnD coins and get Ninja-ja bonus items free! Click here for more info.

Visit the PTD: Pokemon Center - a place to trade pokemon, get your Daily Code, adopt Pokemon, view your items and change your avatar!


Welcome to Hero Tower Defense Tuesday!



Sketch of logo


Go here to read the Day 4 of Hero Tower Defense Tuesdays.

Alright, it's Tuesday and time for another HTD update! Let's talk how we're going to implement offense and defense into HTD.

As we all know traditional tower defense (TD) games typically revolve around, as the name implies, defending. While this is fun and all it's also a bit limiting. When you start adding RPG elements to this system you begin imagining scenarios where you wish you could also attack. So why not add it? I'll describe some such scenarios to better illustrate what we have in mind.

Okay first let me just give some relief to the TD purists. There WILL be traditional TD levels, just not ALL of them. You'll still have your towers (heros) with your base/candy/etc (thing to defend) and all you'll do is defend against waves of enemies, just like the good ol'times. There will most likely be both versions of this as well. For example in some TDs (like PTD) the enemies have to make it to your candy and then return back with it. In other TDs the enemies simply need to reach your base and cause damage to it. I don't see why we can't just have both.

So having said that I've always thought it was kind of lame to have boss enemies simply be tougher units with maybe 1 or 2 special abilities that do exactly same thing as the other units. With RPG elements at your disposal you can do so much more and RPGs ALWAYS have awesome boss fights, which brings us to attacking.

Bosses are just one example of where we can use offense. Suppose you just finished working through a dungeon (each section would be a level with a TD set up for example) and now you face the boss. In this case he's defending his own thing (phat lootz most likely) and so you'll need to approach and attack him in order to get his treasure.

Some bosses may be stationary while others are mobile. You don't want the boss to start beating your casters to a pulp by either getting close to them or targeting them from a distance. So in order to do that you'll need to move and attack with the right units (melee/tanks) to keep him distracted. Just like how in PTD you can move units to different locations there will also be locations near the boss. Of course this puts you right where you'll take the most damage so you might not be able to stay there the whole time and have to swap different units in and out.

Now since we have both pure defending and pure attacking scenarios there's really no reason you can't have a situation in which you have a mix of both. What if there's a boss with little minions that are attacking you and going for your base/candy/etc at the same time as you're trying to defeat him (hint hint). It doesn't even need to involve a boss really, there's plenty of ways you can have defense and offense going on at the same time from both sides.

So to conclude, levels in HTD will vary from pure defense to pure offense to a mix of both which we think will keep things interesting and allow us to do much more with the game. And to finish it off here's an image showing some side angle frames from an attack animation that Kevin worked on:

Concept sketches and actual art with armor

As always give us your feedback in the comments and let us know what you think!

-Dan

47 comments:

  1. Dan.Will there be instances where others attacks and you run through the crowd?

    ReplyDelete
  2. wow I can't wai for this game to come out it'll be epic

    ReplyDelete
  3. Hi. Love the great ideas. Keep up the good work. (Yes, I'm one of the top comments)

    ReplyDelete
  4. Will there be different kinds of attacks? Like more powerful, more costly ones (like use once a wave) and less powerful, less costly ones?

    ReplyDelete
  5. Sounds like a great game!

    P.S. When will game corner be up today?

    ReplyDelete
  6. 9 NEW RECORD! any way i like the art and keep it up!

    ReplyDelete
  7. LOOOOL I WON!!! =P 1st time I try to be first and thinking I'd be 2nd and there you go =D /thumbs up for SnD ;)

    Guess Kevin is keeping up the good work on the chars/attacks (there is something missing tho, but can't remember what it is (ahahah =P)).

    Oh and I remembered this AWESOME thing, that probably should have fit last week but... INVASIONS!!!

    If you played any Artix Entertainment game like Adventure Quest or Dragon Fable you know what kind of invasions I'm on about. Instead of a 3/5 men party (that you end up depending on the other ppl skills and once in a while boosting noobs... you know lol)... You have a world invasion.

    A meter at the invasion menu and LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOADS of waves to defend from (yeah its mostly defendind, but with today's post leaves room for the bosses and other mechanics). And the speciall loot you'd get only after the invasion is defeated.

    Lets say there is a rat invasion (yeah low lvls need to kill some rats =P) everyone would have a shared counter for 3000000 waves (example) and your invasion kill counter. When the 3000000 are killed a new boss fight is unlocked and everyone can go fight it (individually and no effect on the other ppls game). =D Cool?

    Oh and there's more you can add invasion defender loot.

    Example:
    - 1 wave you'd get some cloth rat ears
    - 10 waves - rat sleepers (I know you know where I'm comming from Dan =P)
    - 100 waves - rat leather armor piece
    - 500 waves - tiny rat pet (non-combat)
    - 1000 waves - a Dire Fiendish Rat PET!!! =P

    ReplyDelete
  8. is this gonna be a midieval age? if so incorporating dragons would be awesome.

    ReplyDelete
  9. there should be this dragon that is the boss of a level. not those lame ones that look like plain robots and die easily, no. im talking about a good graphic,high-flying,dodging, fiery dragon. P.S ninja-ja should have a rescue level, where someone is running in the backround and you have to throw shruikens and stuff to block the attacks from killing a friend

    ReplyDelete
  10. wow new record! im second.

    chris

    ReplyDelete
  11. Do you have any definite Class or Races worked out yet for HTD?

    ReplyDelete
  12. maybe the towers age as you upgrade?. baby, toddler, teen, young adult, grown adult, old wise man (like master roshi from db)

    ReplyDelete
  13. what about when upgrading the towers u have options of towers. dual wielder, axe wielder, or arrow shooter. then they would keep branching out to elemental attacks. similar to ant buster

    ReplyDelete
  14. @Anon 7:30 Human lol =P Fighter/Warrior, Ranger/Scout and Sorcerer/Wizard/Mage At least those are there =P

    ReplyDelete
  15. What if you did something from Avatar the last airbender? like different element mages :) Tristan

    ReplyDelete
  16. Sounds great! Kevin is really doing a great job. Hmm perhaps some of the missions in which you get a new character as a reward could be rescue missions, and could be just like the special treasure chests you mentioned earlier.

    ReplyDelete
  17. I absolutely love the idea. And totally digging the dual wielding in the artwork. :)
    So, I see the dual wielding can be incorporated into a Ranger-esque class. Will we also see some good 'ol fashioned bows? I'm sure the answer is yes, my Ranger heart just must be sure. :)

    ReplyDelete
  18. hope this game can be played in my ipad/iphone

    ReplyDelete
  19. There's a reason why you NEVER EVER leave mages/priests out in the open: they're defense stats are atrocious! Any decent AI would target those who either cannot fight back or have terrible defense, and most likely, the attacked unit will be hurt/killed (unless your units are skilled/lucky). It's like Alakazam in Pokemon: Phenomenal Psychic Powers! Itty bitty defense stats.

    Glad to see that this game has a lot of strategy elements.


    I like the idea of having offense and defense on the same map. It gives variety. And I know I'm going to get pounded for using another Fire Emblem reference, but there are a few maps like what you're describing in Radiant Dawn. In the endgame of one of the parts, you have the option of either defending a point or killing the boss. Two ways to win the level. Both work, but depending on your style, you'll end up choosing one over the other.

    Kevin's pictures are looking as amazing as ever! Cannot wait for HTD to come out!

    ReplyDelete
  20. just wanted to point out that Sam Otero isnt first in the comment list for once in his life!!!!!!! lol btw this game sounds great!

    ReplyDelete
  21. "Phenomenal Psychic Powers! Itty bitty defense stats"

    Now I wanna watch Aladdin, good work Dx

    ReplyDelete
  22. Kevin,
    if you make the art around here can i see the people WITHOUT the armor? im also kinda curious how you can ecentify a boss from the normal people will they be bigger? will there be boss music? what? also i wanted to be called "shinycharlover" but i dont have a blog soooooo


    -shinycharlover

    ReplyDelete
  23. @shinycharlover when you post, above the Comment as: "anonymous" there's a "Name/url" you can insert "shinycharlover" in there, no url needed and voila! Hope it helped

    ReplyDelete
  24. @shinycharlover - We thought that an equipped preview would have been more interesting and more accurately depict the game itself. The human male here (I call him Max) just wears pants/sash/boots while unequipped, but I imagine that will vary per race and gender.

    As for bosses, I expect they'll all be much more detailed in general. I have to cut some corners with "character" animation so that creating one piece of armor for every frame and view doesn't turn into a week-long ordeal, but since bosses won't need to switch equipment to such lengths, I should have more room to pack lots of character and detail into them.

    To me, bosses should be some of the most memorable parts of a game. I won't make a boss by giving the base human male some unique armor and making him 200% bigger, for example. There isn't anything interesting about that.

    If I had my way, some recurring bosses might have their own theme music, and I'd probably include voice acting for them, since I think that's a large part of what makes a boss memorable, too. But I'm not promising anything since I don't think any of us three are specialists in music or voice acting. :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. WOOOOAAAAAHHH!!!! It's Kevin!

      Delete
  25. @Kevin
    Theme music for recurring bosses, and maybe make all bosses of the killer squid race share a squid-theme battle music(The killer squids are my new -Insert random race- race :P)

    With the mixed battles, how about a "Offence is the best Defense" battle style, where both sides send waves that battle on the way through one of multiple roads

    ReplyDelete
  26. I'm thinking about it now, why don't change the mission when you complet a area? (not all the areas just some)

    First time, when you make it, you attack and try to capture this zone, when you do it again it change to a defense mission, because you are the owner of this area. ^^

    ReplyDelete
  27. Hello Dan! I am one of the many people who clicks on your games everyday! I also happen to be a writer and would love to help you guys with the writing involved in HTD (or even PTD and Ninja-Ja). I will be willing to write story, character backgrounds, units/items/spells information and anything else!

    Please feel free to contact me on Skype or Gmail!

    Skype - miner 2k11
    Gmail - miner2k11@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  28. What i would really like to see is a character recruiting system like the one in Fire Emblem, where the choices you make (Especially sacrifices, but that doesn't work for this game)affect witch characters do and do not join you.

    Fx, a NPC you meet during the storyline can normally just give you advice of fight you, but if you have a specific character along, it will Fx happen they are siblings or childhood friends, and the NPC will join you. This also works as a foundation for some good back-story too
    This can also be used opposite, with a potential ally will refuse to join you because you already have his rival along. Or the Samson VS Aaron dilemma: Two good characters, but you can only choose one of them, as the other has locked his gate for you in the mean time.

    ReplyDelete
  29. when will there be a demo level? really want to play this

    ReplyDelete
  30. yeah.....i know the REAL game will take awhile cause we are only on day 5! but can you make like a DEMO level? im sooo....exited :P @Gon thanks for the tip but for some reason it wont work for me :P




    -shinycharlover

    ReplyDelete
  31. @Anon 6:12 PM - Yes, we'll most likely have that as well.

    @CrazyItalianDetective - Yeah, definitely. Those are always fun to have.

    @Gon - Haha, you owned yourself on that "1st" comment.

    Interesting, I've seen similar server-wide type events in other games as well. It certainly would be cool to have but that's also rather large scale, will have to see how the technical side of things work out when we get there.

    Lol, the event specific loot sounds fun too.

    @Anon 7:23 PM - Well, medieval/fantasy yeah. Putting dragons in would be awesome indeed. ;)

    @Anon 7:24 PM - Sup, actually you're 12th

    @Awesome1awesome - I agree, a dragon boss would be sweet. What dragons have you seen that look like plain robots and die easily? Lost me there.

    Interesting idea for Ninja-Ja, although not exactly sure how that would work.

    @chris - Umm..

    @Anon 7:30 PM - Not 100% but we have a good idea. We'll talk about that later when we get there.

    @Anon 7:34 PM - That's an interesting concept but that's also a ton of additional work because you have to remember there's a lot of armor and such that has to fit them. Maybe if you didn't have equipment you could do something like that.

    @Tristan - We'll probably have some kind of elemental system.

    @JRDH - That's a good idea, perhaps you'll see that at some point. :)

    @Sly Kamaui - Most likely, we want there to be a nice variety of weapons for all class types.

    @Diego - We're hoping to at least some version for those but it take a little awhile.

    @Chris Tan - Yes, exactly.

    Cool, yeah from the sounds of things Fire Emblem has a lot of similar ideas as what we have in mind. It's funny because neither of us have played any of them lol

    @Anon 10:50 PM - He wasn't first in the last HTD post either :P

    @Jespoke 4:32 AM - The mixed battles will have various amounts of attack and defense depending on the map so I'm sure there will be some of those types as you described.

    @H-oko - Hmm, if that were in multiplayer you'd probably be getting attacked constantly by other players lol! Could still be cool we'll have to see when we get there.

    @Anon 12:50 PM - Cool, maybe have you do a side quest or something :)

    @pokemonash121 - We don't have an ETA, we just started for the most part.

    @Jespoke 1:20 PM - It's tricky to try and manage all the results you can end up with when you allow those sorts of choices. It'd be cool to have but can't say we'll have that for sure to that degree anyway. There will be choices and whatnot but to what extent they have will probably be limited at this point.

    @ansul - We're working on it. :P No ETA at the moment, sorry.

    ReplyDelete
  32. LOL thats how powerfull I am MUAHAH! I can beat even myself! ha =P

    I know pets aren't a priority, but can we (I!!! lol) expect at least 1, even of the tiny ones, like a small mouse that just stands there, sniffs the air, cleans its whiskers, etc? =P even if it just one and a rare drop so I can farm after it =P (OFC all the other pets are included in the request, but I'm asking as a starting point =D

    ps: if you need a tip or two for how the invasions can be menagable I have a few ideas to improve its success (besides those like AWESOME 1337 LOOT! hehe)

    ReplyDelete
  33. hey sam i known something like in PTD are moves So In HTD must be moves and i think some moves i think will help in the game well look
    DragonSlash: Efective with dragons
    FlameSlash: Slash efective against ice
    Metal Slash: Good To metal
    FalconSlash: Hit 2 Times
    ProdigySlash: When You Hit Recover some HP
    Gigaslash: The Best Slash Effective against all but no dark

    ReplyDelete
  34. Anon 9:52 gave me an idea (Dan tell Sam plz =P) how about the "extra love" some moves need in PTD get a hand from Kevin? You know, when he isn't drawing the cool pets that are comming lol =P

    (this forum has become more quiet lately, dunno if its the end of the vacations for most or people trying yo avoid the over excitment "just" for a post =S Go go team SnD)

    ReplyDelete
  35. i have a request too....
    like make a base/candy etc...( something to defend ) with health... like an enemy comes and starts damaging the target...then when the damage is enough the enemy will pick up the object he is damaging and go ... like if there are only 2 candys... each candy has 10 HP (just an example) when the enemy comes he blows it with his weapon... which deals 5 damage to it..but still the candy remains there ...he strikes it again ...now the candy has 0 hp so he picks it up and goes

    ReplyDelete
  36. @dan

    1)will I be able to get HTD on my ipad when it's realesed - hopefully soon.

    2) I have asked you before - HTD day 2 I think - if you are going to include Job Advancement quests. For example if you have a lv 20 normal mage you can except a quest. the quest could be kill 20 dungeon monsters with that character. If you finish the criteria you get upgrade your mage to a fire wizard.

    ??? (???? in PTD trading center)

    ReplyDelete
  37. @Gon 9:30 PM - Probably not just because of the way we have it set up. Maybe for the next level or something we can work that in but I'm not promising anything. :P

    @Gon 9:52 PM - Kevin is only working on HTD for now, that will keep him plenty busy. You'll have to ask Sam about the PTd moves because he does all of those.

    This post has fewer comments that usual because there was a PTD post shortly after it's release. Most people just look at the latest post and comment there for some reason.

    @Shadow Boy - Ah, so like a combination of the two types. Yeah, could probably use that for some levels as well.

    ReplyDelete
  38. @Shadow Boy - Cool idea =D for mushrooms / fruit-trees / CAGED enemies nice =) I'd suggest hardness/DR for those items

    @Dan - well ok /sad face (LOL). Dunno if I made myself clear, I meant on the 1st release didn't have to be in the the actual first lvl LOL just something (PET) to go farm =P

    @Kevin - Now that they aren't reading (lol) if the evil bosses give you some spare time from your turturing sessions make some really awesome pets to show/offer/impress them. You know what they'll say? "For beying so skillfull and creative, Meowth and his friends... *cough* I mean Keving shall be allowed breed with less 2 days for the next week" =P

    ps: yeah I imagine Kevin beying kept captive in Sam and Dan's castle, at the bottom of the 2nd tower cave. lol

    ReplyDelete
  39. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPS!!! LOOOOOL the "breed" was meant to be "bread" ahahah

    Usually we say that hostages are only fed bread (hard as rocks cause its several days old) and whater to drink. And was in that sense =P

    ps: pet (LOL)

    ReplyDelete
  40. You should make pets a big part of the game like be able to catch them have breeding and be able to have multiple pets and have them act like characters but limit how many characters can be out at once(iv been playing ptd for a wile but i havnt payd atention to htd till now soo you might have already covered this idk) o and a dragon pet would be frikin sweeeettttt

    ReplyDelete